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  • What Makes a Card Balanced?

    micsfyuen wrote: »
    Not the official definition of balance, just my opinion.

    I think it is not good to measure a card balance by use rate without comparison to the card’s alternatives.

    E.g. if Zap is the only small spell in the game, even with a usage way over 50%, it doesn’t mean the spell is OP. It is only overused because there is no alternative.

    When looking at usage rates, I think it only make sense when reviewing in a group of similar cards. E.g. win condition, range, splash, mini tank, tank killer, cycle, swarm, small spell, big spell, spawner, siege.

    Then perform a t-test or chi-square test with the usage stats within the group to see if there is any card that has significantly different usage rate.

    It can also apply to win rates. But both overall win rate and comparison with similar cards are important.

    I think the statistics part is basic. The difficult part is how to balance and how to handle players’ expectations.

    I see. It might be accurate, but it's a bit more complicated to do.
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Rum Ham's general policy for balanced cards is, as you said, 9% UR, 45-55% WR. However, there are certain "niche" cards that have lower use rates but higher win rates. Those imply cards that require certain synergies to be viable (like night witch or sparky) or have a higher skill floor or both. Those would be considered balanced.

    I personally don't think use rates and win rates should be the end all be all. If a card is slightly above or slightly below the standards it's not terribly unbalanced. When it gets too high or too low is when balance needs to be done (adjust the most OP and most UP, leave the slightly OP or UP cards alone because even small changes could break or kill the card).

    Also remember that RoyaleAPI does not tell the full story, only Supercell has the "true" stats. Generally, no card has a 60% or more win rate or less than 30% win rate. I'd say 14-days is a better indicator than 1-day though

    So basically:

    1. High Win Rate + High Use Rate = Fully OP, need nerf.

    2. High Win Rate + Normal Use Rate = Partially OP, need to buff counters (that are partially UP) or meta shift.

    3. High Win Rate + Low Use Rate = Powerful, but bottlenecked by card selection pool, need more variety of cards (more synergy) or meta shift.

    4. Normal Win Rate + High Use Rate = No good alternatives for the card, need more variety of cards or deeper observations before doing some balancing.

    5. Normal Win Rate + Normal Use Rate = Balanced in the current meta.

    6. Normal Win Rate + Low Use Rate = High skill cap card, or the card is overshadowed by its alternatives. Need deeper observations before doing some balancing.

    7. Low Win Rate + High Use Rate = The card is overhyped (this is rare and only occurs during the introduction and post-buff of a card). Need some time to get used to the card/buff. There is a chance that the buff is not enough.

    8. Low Win Rate + Normal Use Rate = Partially UP, need to nerf counters (that are partially OP) or meta shift.

    9. Low Win Rate + Low Use Rate = Fully UP, need buff

    With High: more than 55% WR or 10% UR and Low: less than 45% WR or 8% UR.

    What do you think?
    JcttehTheWiseferrell34Giorgakis
  • Spell Combinations

    Freeze: 95
    - Skeletons 67
    - Bats 67
    - Skeleton Army 67
    - Fire Spirits 91

    Tornado: 140
    Zap: 159
    Giant Snowball: 159

    - Spear Goblins 110

    Freeze + Tornado: 235
    Log: 240
    Barbarian Barrel: 243

    - Goblins 167
    - Ice Spirit 190
    - Shield of Guards/Dark Prince/Royal Recruits 199
    - Dart Goblin 216
    - Princess 216

    Arrows: 243
    - Minions 190
    - Minion Horde 190

    Freeze + Zap: 254
    - Archers 252

    Tornado + Zap: 299
    Tornado + Giant Snowball: 299
    - Wall Breaks 275

    Zap + Giant Snowball: 318
    Freeze + Log: 335
    Freeze + Arrows: 338
    Freeze + Barbarian Barrel: 338
    Tornado + Log: 380
    Tornado + Arrows: 383
    Tornado + Barbarian Barrel: 383
    Zap + Log: 399
    Giant Snowball + Log: 399
    Zap + Arrows: 402
    Giant Snowball + Arrows: 402
    Zap + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    Giant Snowball + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    - Bomber 311

    Log + Arrows: 483
    Log + Barbarian Barrel: 483
    Arrows + Barbarian Barrel: 486
    - Tombstone 422
    - Zappies 440
    - Royal Recruits without shield 440

    Fireball: 572
    - Magic Archer 490
    - Flying Machine 510
    - Barbarians 550

    Poison: 600
    Freeze + Fireball: 667
    - Guards 90
    - Ice Wizard 590
    - Electro Wizard 590
    - 3 Musketeers 598
    - Musketeer 598
    - Wizard 598

    Freeze + Poison: 695
    - Skeleton Barrel 636
    - Mega Minion 695
    - Royal Hog 695

    Tornado + Fireball: 712
    - Hunter 696

    Zap + Fireball: 731
    Giant Snowball + Fireball: 731
    Tornado + Poison: 740
    - Shield of Cannon Cart 731
    - Cannon Cart without shield 731

    Zap + Poison: 759
    Giant Snowball + Poison: 759
    - Cannon 742
    - Night Witch 750
    - Battle Ram 756

    Log + Fireball: 812
    Arrows + Fireball: 815
    Barbarian Barrel + Fireball: 815
    Log + Poison: 840
    Arrows + Poison: 843
    Barbarian Barrel + Poison: 843
    Lightning: 877
    - Bandit 780
    - Witch 787

    Arrows + Fireball: 815
    Arrows + Poison: 843
    Lightning: 877
    - Electro Dragon 790

    Freeze + Lightning: 972
    - Elixir Collector 888
    - Tesla 954
    - Elite Barbarians 970

    Tornado + Lightning: 1017
    - Ice Golem 994
    - Royal Ghost 1000
    - Miner 1000
    - Furnace 1003
    - Executioner 1010

    Zap + Lightning: 1036
    Giant Snowball + Lightning: 1036
    - Dark Prince without shield 1030

    Log + Lightning: 1117
    Arrows + Lightning: 1120
    Barbarian Barrel + Lightning: 1120
    - Lumberjack 1060

    Arrows + Lightning: 1120
    - Baby Dragon 1064
    - Inferno Dragon 1070

    Fireball + Poison: 1172
    - Bomb Tower 1126
    - Mini PEKKA 1129

    Rocket: 1232
    - Sparky 1200
    - Mortar 1219

    Freeze + Rocket: 1327
    - Goblin Hut 1293

    Tornado + Rocket: 1372
    - Same as just Rocket

    Zap + Rocket: 1391
    Giant Snowball + Rocket: 1391
    - Knight 1382
    - XBow 1383

    Fireball + Lightning: 1449
    - Balloon 1396
    - Hog Rider 1408

    Log + Rocket: 1472
    Arrows + Rocket: 1475
    Barbarian Barrel + Rocket: 1475
    Poison + Lightning: 1477
    - Inferno Tower 1452
    - Ram Rider 1461

    Fireball + Rocket: 1804
    Poison + Rocket: 1832
    Lightning + Rocket: 2109
    - Bowler 1596
    - Prince 1615
    - Valkyrie 1657
    - Barbarian Hut 1804

    Does not die to spells:
    Royal Giant 2544
    Giant Goblin 2616
    Giant Skeleton 2793
    Lava Hound 3150
    Giant 3275
    Mega Knight 3300
    PEKKA 3458
    Golem 4256
    ferrell34Giorgakis
  • Spell Combinations

    Here I am going to list all spell combos. All of them are going to be double spells and there are no triple spells here. Also all Offensive, Semi Spawner and Semi Support spells are included. I will also have the individual spells themselves to compare them

    I will list them from lowest damage to highest.

    Freeze: 95
    Tornado: 140
    Zap: 159
    Giant Snowball: 159
    Freeze + Tornado: 235
    Log: 240
    Arrows: 243
    Barbarian Barrel: 243
    Freeze + Zap: 254
    Tornado + Zap: 299
    Tornado + Giant Snowball: 299
    Zap + Giant Snowball: 318
    Freeze + Log: 335
    Freeze + Arrows: 338
    Freeze + Barbarian Barrel: 338
    Tornado + Log: 380
    Tornado + Arrows: 383
    Tornado + Barbarian Barrel: 383
    Zap + Log: 399
    Giant Snowball + Log: 399
    Zap + Arrows: 402
    Giant Snowball + Arrows: 402
    Zap + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    Giant Snowball + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    Log + Arrows: 483
    Log + Barbarian Barrel: 483
    Arrows + Barbarian Barrel: 486
    Fireball: 572
    Poison: 600
    Freeze + Fireball: 667
    Freeze + Poison: 695
    Tornado + Fireball: 712
    Zap + Fireball: 731
    Giant Snowball + Fireball: 731
    Tornado + Poison: 740
    Zap + Poison: 759
    Giant Snowball + Poison: 759
    Log + Fireball: 812
    Arrows + Fireball: 815
    Barbarian Barrel + Fireball: 815
    Log + Poison: 840
    Arrows + Poison: 843
    Barbarian Barrel + Poison: 843
    Lightning: 877
    Freeze + Lightning: 972
    Tornado + Lightning: 1017
    Zap + Lightning: 1036
    Giant Snowball + Lightning: 1036
    Log + Lightning: 1117
    Arrows + Lightning: 1120
    Barbarian Barrel + Lightning: 1120
    Fireball + Poison: 1172
    Rocket: 1232
    Freeze + Rocket: 1327
    Tornado + Rocket: 1372
    Zap + Rocket: 1391
    Giant Snowball + Rocket: 1391
    Fireball + Lightning: 1449
    Log + Rocket: 1472
    Arrows + Rocket: 1475
    Barbarian Barrel + Rocket: 1475
    Poison + Lightning: 1477
    Fireball + Rocket: 1804
    Poison + Rocket: 1832
    Lightning + Rocket: 2109

    Those are all the spell combos with their respective damage.
    ferrell34
  • Spell Combinations

    Freeze: 95
    - Skeletons 67
    - Bats 67
    - Skeleton Army 67
    - Fire Spirits 91

    Tornado: 140
    Zap: 159
    Giant Snowball: 159

    - Spear Goblins 110

    Freeze + Tornado: 235
    Log: 240
    Barbarian Barrel: 243

    - Goblins 167
    - Ice Spirit 190
    - Shield of Guards/Dark Prince/Royal Recruits 199
    - Dart Goblin 216
    - Princess 216

    Arrows: 243
    - Minions 190
    - Minion Horde 190

    Freeze + Zap: 254
    - Archers 252

    Tornado + Zap: 299
    Tornado + Giant Snowball: 299
    - Wall Breaks 275

    Zap + Giant Snowball: 318
    Freeze + Log: 335
    Freeze + Arrows: 338
    Freeze + Barbarian Barrel: 338
    Tornado + Log: 380
    Tornado + Arrows: 383
    Tornado + Barbarian Barrel: 383
    Zap + Log: 399
    Giant Snowball + Log: 399
    Zap + Arrows: 402
    Giant Snowball + Arrows: 402
    Zap + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    Giant Snowball + Barbarian Barrel: 402
    - Bomber 311

    Log + Arrows: 483
    Log + Barbarian Barrel: 483
    Arrows + Barbarian Barrel: 486
    - Tombstone 422
    - Zappies 440
    - Royal Recruits without shield 440

    Fireball: 572
    - Magic Archer 490
    - Flying Machine 510
    - Barbarians 550

    Poison: 600
    Freeze + Fireball: 667
    - Guards 90
    - Ice Wizard 590
    - Electro Wizard 590
    - 3 Musketeers 598
    - Musketeer 598
    - Wizard 598

    Freeze + Poison: 695
    - Skeleton Barrel 636
    - Mega Minion 695
    - Royal Hog 695

    Tornado + Fireball: 712
    - Hunter 696

    Zap + Fireball: 731
    Giant Snowball + Fireball: 731
    Tornado + Poison: 740
    - Shield of Cannon Cart 731
    - Cannon Cart without shield 731

    Zap + Poison: 759
    Giant Snowball + Poison: 759
    - Cannon 742
    - Night Witch 750
    - Battle Ram 756

    Log + Fireball: 812
    Arrows + Fireball: 815
    Barbarian Barrel + Fireball: 815
    Log + Poison: 840
    Arrows + Poison: 843
    Barbarian Barrel + Poison: 843
    Lightning: 877
    - Bandit 780
    - Witch 787

    Arrows + Fireball: 815
    Arrows + Poison: 843
    Lightning: 877
    - Electro Dragon 790

    Freeze + Lightning: 972
    - Elixir Collector 888
    - Tesla 954
    - Elite Barbarians 970

    Tornado + Lightning: 1017
    - Ice Golem 994
    - Royal Ghost 1000
    - Miner 1000
    - Furnace 1003
    - Executioner 1010

    Zap + Lightning: 1036
    Giant Snowball + Lightning: 1036
    - Dark Prince without shield 1030

    Log + Lightning: 1117
    Arrows + Lightning: 1120
    Barbarian Barrel + Lightning: 1120
    - Lumberjack 1060

    Arrows + Lightning: 1120
    - Baby Dragon 1064
    - Inferno Dragon 1070

    Fireball + Poison: 1172
    - Bomb Tower 1126
    - Mini PEKKA 1129

    Rocket: 1232
    - Sparky 1200
    - Mortar 1219

    Freeze + Rocket: 1327
    - Goblin Hut 1293

    Tornado + Rocket: 1372
    - Same as just Rocket

    Zap + Rocket: 1391
    Giant Snowball + Rocket: 1391
    - Knight 1382
    - XBow 1383

    Fireball + Lightning: 1449
    - Balloon 1396
    - Hog Rider 1408

    Log + Rocket: 1472
    Arrows + Rocket: 1475
    Barbarian Barrel + Rocket: 1475
    Poison + Lightning: 1477
    - Inferno Tower 1452
    - Ram Rider 1461

    Fireball + Rocket: 1804
    Poison + Rocket: 1832
    Lightning + Rocket: 2109
    - Bowler 1596
    - Prince 1615
    - Valkyrie 1657
    - Barbarian Hut 1804

    Does not die to spells:
    Royal Giant 2544
    Giant Goblin 2616
    Giant Skeleton 2793
    Lava Hound 3150
    Giant 3275
    Mega Knight 3300
    PEKKA 3458
    Golem 4256
    ferrell34Giorgakis
  • Donations with less clicks

    I can only donate one card per request so it does not affect me at all.

    But I mean why this should not be added? It should and it would help the game rather than harm it.
    sanky127
  • Donations with less clicks

    Yeah I agree, clicking that much is pointless, and only donating less than 8 doesn't serve a purpose either. Who wouldn't want to get lvl 13 king tower faster?
    sanky127
  • Donations with less clicks

    I Never thought about that. But I think this could really be useful
    sanky127
  • Donations with less clicks

    MasterCal wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure but can you press and hold on one donation until the eight cards are donated?

    You are right. You can hold the donation button to donate all 8 cards gradually.

    I'll highlight this to the thread.
    Giorgakis
  • Donations with less clicks

    I'm not 100% sure but can you press and hold on one donation until the eight cards are donated?
    ferrell34
  • Weekly Discussion - The Magic Archer

    The Princess in Beatdown and Siege. I found him pretty balanced, but i get the reason his underused. There are 2 factors of why he's underused:
    1. Current META
    The Current META is better off without MA, example: Hut Control plays better with Zappies as a Bait and defensive unit since they are better at two lane control and they stun Princes (both Princes, which are very used rn).
    2. High skill cap card
    As @micsfyuen said above, it's hard to master MA especially in the part of timing and placement. MA's linear attack is hard to predict and control. Sometimes it hits all the targets, sometimes it doesn't. Unlike previous cards such as MK and Ghost, they are much more understandable and controlable. Which make them easier to accept to the META.
    MasterCaldude2050Giorgakis
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