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[Strategy] An answer for every argument about Goblin Giant being weak!

JcttehTheWiseJcttehTheWise Posts: 1,920Moderator
edited September 2018 in Strategy & Deck Building
Sooooo this thread was some kind of an obligation for me because I'm SICK of reading/listening that Goblin Giant (GobG) is UP and Giant is way better and other stuff like that, and I fear that because of that GobG receives an overbuff and becomes OP and you know the rest of the tale.

Here, I'll try to respond to the most common arguments that players employ to denigrate the GobG, based on my experience playing the gobG challenges in my 3 accounts:

Comparing GobG to a Giant, GobG is more expensive, has less HP and less damage, so Giant is better

All of you forget that GobG's speed is not slow but medium. Is that really important? YES, because it's not as effective as Giant when used at the back, but way better when used at the bridge. Players tend to use GobG at the back because they think its just another Giant, but the best way to play GobG is by playing a slow support troop at the back and then you tank it with GobG at the bridge, or you defend a push and you remain some defense alive… put that GobG in front! Tank! Once you have that counterpush, GobG will reach the tower faster, either the GobG itself, either the spear gobs at the back (reason behind having less HP, then GobG would be better than Giant), and the total damage is higher!

Talking about Spear Goblins...


Spear Goblins don't do that much. Their damage is ignorable and all they can take out (specially Bats) can be deleted too if I use Zap/support troops with my Giant, so Giant is better

Did you know that you can also use Zap/support with GobG?

And before you say "still Giant better because is cheaper", that's FALSE. Against Bats, you spend 7 elixir with Giant (+Zap), but GobG can take them out by his own, so it's 6 elixir. Against Minions, you spend 8 elixir if you use Giant (+Arrows/3 elixir support troop), but zapping the Minions, GobG can take them all out just as they where Bats, resulting in 8 elixir too!

"Well, that's the same elixir for Giant + support, better than just a single GobG"; that's not necessarily better. That support troop you use with Giant could be a key defensive card that you've already spent, such as against Balloon or Witch. Not just that. If your opponent defends with Goblin Gang, then your three elixir support troop that goes with your Giant could be easily killed with gang (e.g. Dart Goblin) or it just cannot take them all out quickly (e.g. Megaminion), and if you use Arrows then you are vulnerable to other bait cards such as Minion Horde, Princess or Goblin Barrel! The only way to get rid of Goblin Gang would be using The Log (again vulnerable to bait cards) or using a support troop that cost more than 3 elixir, resulting in 9+ elixir, while GobG can also get easily rid of the gang with just a Zap!

"In that case you are also vulnerable to bait cards". That's right, but unless your Zap is overleveled, it's not the best option against Goblin Barrel or Minion Horde. For that reason, you usually carry Fireball/Poison to take care of the Minion Horde (or buildings) and defend Goblin Barrel + tank with a 3/4 support troop (e.g. Gob Gang, Valkyrie...).

"I can carry that in my Giant deck too", but unless you use triple spell, you are in one of these two situations (without overleveling):

1. Your low elixir spell is Zap? Every bait card you zap will be still alive (except Skelearmy) so you will need a support card to take them out, a problem that GobG solves with the Spear Gobs on his back.

2. Your low elixir spell is Log? You need an extra card to reset/distract Inferno Dragons/Tower, else your tank is doomed.

And there's a fact I didn't pointed out yet about GobG: Spear Gobs' death spawn!

Those two spear gobs are more than just two more spears. First, they can be tanked by a support troop such as Miner or Prince, just as a Lava Hound when it pops out its Lava Pups, and chip damage the defender. Second, those two Spear Goblins will tank two hits from a possible heavy hitter (e.g. MiniPEKKA), which generates a key time to your support troops to kill the heavy hitter!

One last key fact about those Spear Gobs: they let the GobG to be usable at defense! For example, opponent sends a surprise ballon when you already wasted all your air counters. The giant user is forced to cycle as fast as he can to use one of his air targeting cards (or try to attack the opposite lane to destroy the tower before the balloon does), but the GobG user can use desperately the GobG to chip damage the balloon at the same time you iniciate a push. Just use him as you'd use a Battleram on defense!

Conclusion (TLDR): GobG is not worse than a Giant, but as good as Giant. The difference is that each tank works better in certain situations than the other one. Concretely, I'd say that GobG works better against decks with swarmy defense(e.g. Log Bait, Miner Control, Bridge Spam) while Giant works better for more expensive ofensive decks (it's a cheaper tank after all).

I'm pretty sure despite I post this the general opinion about GobG won't change that much, but at least I tried, and maybe prevents GobG to be overbuffed, as most players claim. Tbh, GobG MAYYYY need a bit more HP, but please, don't overbuff this card and turn it into another Ebarb case...
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  1. Did my thread changed your opinion about GobG?9 votes
    1. Yes, but now I think it's OP... NERF! NERF! NERF!
      11.11%
    2. Yes, GobG is perfectly balanced!
      22.22%
    3. Yes, but I still think it needs a buff
      22.22%
    4. Nah, GobG is still trash for me (why? :( )
      11.11%
    5. I though from the beginning that GobG wasn't a bad card after all...
      33.33%
    6. Yes, GobG is WORSE than I though (why) :( )
        0.00%
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Comments

  • micsfyuenmicsfyuen Posts: 646Member
    Goblin Giant is very weak at the moment, even you say it may need a buff in hp. But I am afraid that this card will get overbuffed in the future as well.

    Even though the stats are low for Goblin Giant at the moment, the concept of the card is indeed crazily strong. A tank, targets building, kills swamp on his own, hits both air and ground, spawn troops upon death, there is no other card that can do as many things as Goblin Giant. If it gets a big buff, it will definitely be in every deck.
  • LostParadiseLostParadise Posts: 997Member
    edited September 2018
    GG would be mediocre at most ATM,under normal circumstances,but it's not just because it synergizes so well with the OP Zap!

    If the Zap gets the well-deserved nerf (which will probably never happen),then the GG could use some buff.Right at the moment,he's just fine.

    Additionally,doesn't this fit more in the Card Balance?
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  • JcttehTheWiseJcttehTheWise Posts: 1,920Moderator
    GG would be mediocre at most ATM,under normal circumstances,but it's not just because it synergizes so well with the OP Zap!

    If the Zap gets the well-deserved nerf (which will probably never happen),then the GG could use some buff.Right at the moment,he's just fine.

    Additionally,doesn't this fit more in the Card Balance?

    I think is more related to strategy because the thread's structure is more like a how to use and counter x video, but I think it could fit in both subforums, even in General because of this duality.
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  • MathChampMathChamp Posts: 1,720Moderator
    edited September 2018
    I find that the problem with the goblin giant is the spear goblins themselves. The pairing with a zap would be a good idea in theory, but the spear goblins just attack so slow that they don't offer the fast reaction time to take out the swarms before they deal major damage to the goblin giant.

    And, the tankiness of the goblin giant still leaves much to be desired. I'm not necessarily saying that they should buff the health, but there's definitely not that much health. The Royal Giant, the underpowered common card ranged tank that should not have too many hitpoints, has more hitpoints than the goblin giant on equivalent levels (which is actually dumb). For being a melee tank, the goblin giant doesn't really fit the tanky role.

    If I were to buff him in my opinion (and I honestly think he eventually needs a slight buff or rework), I would either increase his damage or make him a fast speed with a health and damage nerf.

    I personally prefer the rework option because I feel that the goblin giant should be fast because, well, he's a goblin. And, a good health and damage nerf should allow the goblin giant to fit into a niche of a really good heavy bridge spam card. We're lacking the heavy bridge spam option, and the goblin giant could fit this role very well with his ability to take care of cheap answers along with its tankiness and heavy cost.

    And, if the goblin giant becomes a tad too OP, they can still rework the stats without much change because it's an epic and is hard to level up for ladder (but they still need to watch out if they buff them because challenges will be ruled by the goblin giant if they make it too OP)
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  • TotillityTotillity Posts: 184Member
    I agree with every thing you said. The spear goblins do pair well with zap. Its just that the GobG's synergy with zap just isn't good enough. The concept of the card is interesting, and the spear goblins are good, but only in niche situations.

    Essentially, the GobG only needs a small buff, probably to his Spear Goblins, to be viable.
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  • LostParadiseLostParadise Posts: 997Member
    edited September 2018
    If you still feel he needs some kind of improvement,maybe give him a third spear goblin (assuming you were not already referring to that and instead a stat buff to the SG) with stat nerfs to GG himself? Or is this too ridiculous?
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  • TotillityTotillity Posts: 184Member
    If you still feel he needs some kind of improvement,maybe give him a third spear goblin (assuming you were not already referring to that and instead a stat buff to the SG) with stat nerfs to GG himself? Or is this too ridiculous?

    Assuming that you were talking to me, change the stats of the SG on his back, but not the SG card, or the SG which drop. Speed up their attack to 1.3 sec but keep the damage the same, which is an all around buff. That makes the SG more of an actual threat than a mere tickle.
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