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Get rid of ebarbs

killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
And 90% of the problems with overleveled players goes away. A lot of the problem with 4k being a wall of overleveled bad players is reduced greatly. And the game becomes much more fun.
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Comments

  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,172Moderator
    I'd honestly rather not set a precedent of "remove x card" for y reason. Then Supercell will be flooded with requests to remove all sorts of cards, either because they are garbage, overpowered, or they just plain counter their deck
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  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    While I hear you, ebarbs are somewhat a special case imo. They are a mistake. I recall (back when the other forums were active) SC admitted they always regretted making them common. They are not and cannot be properly balanced... if they are balanced for tourneys, they they will further ruin the mid to lower ladder range (more then they already do) because to survive everyone will have to play overleveled ebarbs.

    Even RG for whatever reason, while facing the same rarity issue, is not as rampant as the ebarb problem. One of my accounts which is all lvl10 cards and one lvl9 mostly battles people with a mix of 10s, 11s and the occasinal lvl12 cards... but the ebarbs, even below 4k are often lvl13. It shouldn’t be that people have to battle cards three levels higher then theirs because SC made a mistake making them common.

    While there are many atrocious players with overleveled cards, easily 3/4 of the culprits are ebarbs.

    Everyone seems to agree that 4k is a mess. The card levels jump up fast as all the bad players get stuck here... and guess where the highest incidence of ebarbs are? You clean up ebarbs and 4k gets measurably better.
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Im just saying mastercal that this is terrible. Please note the card levels of the non ebarb player... and then the ebarb player. Take out ebarbs and you see so much less of this sh#t. SC screwd up making this not only possible but rampant all over from about 3500 cups until at least 4700 cups.

    7 out of my last 20 battles there had ebarbs. The majority of players had 10s and 11s. 100% of the ebarbs were 12 or 13. Its just dumb,

    hu0bf3edx8yi.png

    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,172Moderator
    killer wrote: »
    While I hear you, ebarbs are somewhat a special case imo. They are a mistake. I recall (back when the other forums were active) SC admitted they always regretted making them common. They are not and cannot be properly balanced... if they are balanced for tourneys, they they will further ruin the mid to lower ladder range (more then they already do) because to survive everyone will have to play overleveled ebarbs.

    Even RG for whatever reason, while facing the same rarity issue, is not as rampant as the ebarb problem. One of my accounts which is all lvl10 cards and one lvl9 mostly battles people with a mix of 10s, 11s and the occasinal lvl12 cards... but the ebarbs, even below 4k are often lvl13. It shouldn’t be that people have to battle cards three levels higher then theirs because SC made a mistake making them common.

    While there are many atrocious players with overleveled cards, easily 3/4 of the culprits are ebarbs.

    Everyone seems to agree that 4k is a mess. The card levels jump up fast as all the bad players get stuck here... and guess where the highest incidence of ebarbs are? You clean up ebarbs and 4k gets measurably better.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that EBarbs were not initially released overpowered. They were actually underpowered on release. I think the main mistake was the buff they got (19% HP, 14% dmg, and 0.2 s faster hitspeed iirc). Not saying that the card should have been Common, but what if the buff wasn't that extreme and EBarbs were fairly "balanced" after that? Maybe they'd be overleveled, maybe not.

    Supercell clamped down on Royal Recruits pretty quickly to prevent them from being broken on ladder, but they waited too long on EBarbs (nerfed once in January and again in April after community outrage).

    Removing EBarbs could cut down on overleveled cards, but there'd still be Hog, 3M, Wizard, Goblin Gang, Barbarians, Giant, and other cards that are a pain when overleveled too.
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    CR Stats PB: 4609 KT: 12. Card lvls: Mostly 11 with some lvl 10 Rares and lvl 12 Commons 90/90 cards unlocked. IGN: Hardcase Royale.

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  • VengeanceVengeance Posts: 1,403Member
    MasterCal wrote: »
    killer wrote: »
    While I hear you, ebarbs are somewhat a special case imo. They are a mistake. I recall (back when the other forums were active) SC admitted they always regretted making them common. They are not and cannot be properly balanced... if they are balanced for tourneys, they they will further ruin the mid to lower ladder range (more then they already do) because to survive everyone will have to play overleveled ebarbs.

    Even RG for whatever reason, while facing the same rarity issue, is not as rampant as the ebarb problem. One of my accounts which is all lvl10 cards and one lvl9 mostly battles people with a mix of 10s, 11s and the occasinal lvl12 cards... but the ebarbs, even below 4k are often lvl13. It shouldn’t be that people have to battle cards three levels higher then theirs because SC made a mistake making them common.

    While there are many atrocious players with overleveled cards, easily 3/4 of the culprits are ebarbs.

    Everyone seems to agree that 4k is a mess. The card levels jump up fast as all the bad players get stuck here... and guess where the highest incidence of ebarbs are? You clean up ebarbs and 4k gets measurably better.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that EBarbs were not initially released overpowered. They were actually underpowered on release. I think the main mistake was the buff they got (19% HP, 14% dmg, and 0.2 s faster hitspeed iirc). Not saying that the card should have been Common, but what if the buff wasn't that extreme and EBarbs were fairly "balanced" after that? Maybe they'd be overleveled, maybe not.

    Supercell clamped down on Royal Recruits pretty quickly to prevent them from being broken on ladder, but they waited too long on EBarbs (nerfed once in January and again in April after community outrage).

    Removing EBarbs could cut down on overleveled cards, but there'd still be Hog, 3M, Wizard, Goblin Gang, Barbarians, Giant, and other cards that are a pain when overleveled too.
    You forgot the stupid gob barrel. Its also a pain. And the princess, dar gob and m horde when they survive arrows/log.
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  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Vengeance wrote: »
    You forgot the stupid gob barrel. Its also a pain. And the princess, dar gob and m horde when they survive arrows/log.

    I dont see those overleveled everywhere
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    edited October 2018
    MasterCal wrote: »

    One thing to keep in mind though is that EBarbs were not initially released overpowered. They were actually underpowered on release. I think the main mistake was the buff they got (19% HP, 14% dmg, and 0.2 s faster hitspeed iirc). Not saying that the card should have been Common, but what if the buff wasn't that extreme and EBarbs were fairly "balanced" after that? Maybe they'd be overleveled, maybe not.

    Supercell clamped down on Royal Recruits pretty quickly to prevent them from being broken on ladder, but they waited too long on EBarbs (nerfed once in January and again in April after community outrage).

    Removing EBarbs could cut down on overleveled cards, but there'd still be Hog, 3M, Wizard, Goblin Gang, Barbarians, Giant, and other cards that are a pain when overleveled too.

    Its true that they were underwhelming when initially released. I recall that hellish period where if I remember correctly, SC overbuffed them then went on vacation where use rates of ebarbs shot up to 50%. But the primary issue is still the rarity. During that period people quickly maxxed their ebarbs and we had the start of legions of players with massive level differences. SC was forced to nerf ebarbs for the ladder which assumed every ebarb would be a lvl or more above the average.

    This persists today. The problem imo is that ebarbs are the favored card of frankly shitty players.... of which there are a lot of them. Its not just the ebarb that is overleveled. The average ebarb player has a multitude of cards above their opponent. This is the last opponent. Once again look at the opponent before and my card levels compared to the ebarb player. This is typical of the vast majority of users of this card. And imo it is this card and these players that are a lot of the reason for the rapid escalation if card levels around 4k.
    s4zcy5am5oaw.png

    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Once again, look at the card levels of my opponent before and then the ebarb player. They are just bad for the game. If this is what it takes for ebarb players to win then the card shoukd be dumped.
    fdh1rmeb5kz9.png
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • JcttehTheWiseJcttehTheWise Posts: 1,896Member
    killer wrote: »
    Once again, look at the card levels of my opponent before and then the ebarb player. They are just bad for the game. If this is what it takes for ebarb players to win then the card shoukd be dumped.
    fdh1rmeb5kz9.png

    I think this proves that Ebarbs' problem is NOT rarity. Even if rarity was changed from the beginning, Ebarbs would still be maxed, just as Hog Rider, Fireball, even if they were an epic card, such as Witch, Prince or Executioner (this last one also proves that reléase date isn't a problema for overlevelers to max cards).
    Ebarbs just shouldn't be that annoying and easy to deal at the same time. They shouldn't work that well when played at the bridge. That's the reason why IMO decreasing speed is the best fix for Eloosers.
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  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Well, its the rarity in the sense that if they were say epic, they could be buffed as they would be harder to max. This particular player is worse then most... but you still see pretty much 100% of ebarb players with extra cards leveled up. Its too easy to max them. So where players can overlevel you still see a surprising number if ebarb players. At 4500-4600 where I am currently they are still running 25% of all battles. Thats still 2nd only to hog (which by my log I’m Currently battling them 44% of the last 25 battles). But seeing that so many of the ebarb players are nearly maxxed they’ve almost peaked.
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
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  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Why is it the the crappiest players love ebarbs so much? It cant just be the common rarity. It is so consistent.... if there is a player fully maxxed hundreds of cups below other such maxxed players... it is an ebarb player. I just don’t get it.

    I wish one of these horrible players was on the forum. Are they ignorant of how bad they are? Why don’t they switch? (Ive changed several times so I dont buy that they’re invested to the point of no return). Are they concious that 99% of the people not playing ebarbs all have lower cards then them? Does it bother them?


    5q3pidi82h47.png
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    I have some numbers. Out of 25 matches in the 2700-2800 range, the average player had 3-5 maxxed cards. But in those 25 matches, 6 players had 6-8 maxxed cards. Of those 6, 4 of them were ebarb decks.

    I actually played a match where I had seen 5 maxxed cards in a giant deck. I laughed because I thought with all the cards I had seen so far I was surprised it wasn’t an ebarb deck.... sure enough, in the last minute of the match “surprise ebarbs”.

    It has become a usable strategic predictor (among other signs) the more maxxed cards you see the more likely you should prepare for an ebarb drop. (Also... if a naked wiz is approaching your river guess what’s coming?)
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Is there no ebarb users on forum besides Piklashu? I’m so curious to hear from your average ebarb user. I just reviewed my log and see that EVERY ebarb user has multiple xtra maxxed cards then the average. The last two had 8+ extra card levels. These players required about 4k more cards used and would have spent around 500k more gold to compete with the average player they’re up against. I can’t help thinking they’re not only bad but aren’t too thoughtful. At some point they must have realized this was the cost of ebarbs. Why on earth would anyone go the ebarb route? Its not like this hasn’t been known about ebarbs for a long time now. Yet around 4k there are sooo many ebarb users. I jut don’t get it, I want to understand. Why are so many choosing what should be an obviously poor path?
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
  • ShaggsShaggs Posts: 469Member
    <---- Your Favorite E.barb user here....HaHa....

    You and I are at the same trophy range and I have 3 maxed cards... (e.barbs is one)..... same as you??? and this is with me not even trying to play ladder but once a month.

    Why so much hate one one card? I can only guess it is because it is a straight counter to your play style.... I have a card or 2 that I hate also, but only because I haven't figured out a solid game plan to get around it....

    Why did I choose E.Barbs??? Because I'm smart maybe??? E.Barbs are an easy card to level and it can counter most meta cards when I started..... Golem, I push opposite lane.... Hog, easy kill with a counter push... Giant, drop behind and kill the support with no problems... 3M, kills them too if you drop E.Barbs right on em...

    A very, very versatile card if you learn/create multiple strategies.... you want to label it as weak to try to get people away from it or lobby for SC to remove it.... seems drastic.... let me know if it works, I have a few cards I want to add to the listed of banned cards.
  • killerkiller Posts: 1,095Member
    Shaggs wrote: »
    <---- Your Favorite E.barb user here....HaHa....

    You and I are at the same trophy range and I have 3 maxed cards... (e.barbs is one)..... same as you??? and this is with me not even trying to play ladder but once a month.

    Why so much hate one one card? I can only guess it is because it is a straight counter to your play style.... I have a card or 2 that I hate also, but only because I haven't figured out a solid game plan to get around it....

    Why did I choose E.Barbs??? Because I'm smart maybe??? E.Barbs are an easy card to level and it can counter most meta cards when I started..... Golem, I push opposite lane.... Hog, easy kill with a counter push... Giant, drop behind and kill the support with no problems... 3M, kills them too if you drop E.Barbs right on em...

    A very, very versatile card if you learn/create multiple strategies.... you want to label it as weak to try to get people away from it or lobby for SC to remove it.... seems drastic.... let me know if it works, I have a few cards I want to add to the listed of banned cards.

    Um... ebarbs are not a counter. Again, other then piklashu, I’ve rarely if ever met a good ebarb player. As I’ve shown with stats over and over again, the more cards a player has over the average at any range the more likely they are ebarb players. And most if them are not smart as they are spending 100ks more in gold to get to the same cuprange as everyone else.

    But, I can explain my dislike for them. (1) they are always overleveled players which I dislike in general. But while every type of deck has overleveled players, ebarb players are nearly all that way. (2) I get annoyed just that so many make bad choices (in that they spend more to get to the same place and their focusing on a card which limits their potential... you hardly ever see an ebarb user above 5k because once they can’t overlevel they lose) (3) just because they’re so bad and predictable.

    Re our cupranges... I dont know how we compare. Out of boredom I have playing mostly my deck with 4 lvl11 cards and 4lvl12 cards which last season I took to 4610. So I’m not sure how that compares to your deck or your cuprange. But I can tell you every ebarb user I face has had multiple maxxed cards vs my none.
    vouz81kqd95y.png
    Two decks:
    Ram/exe/miner/tornado/ggang/poison/log/goblins
    Rhogs/tesla/valk/musk/fireball/zap/ggang/bats
    Signature art by JcttehTheWise
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