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[ONE and ONLY] {Lightning} Card Balance Discussion (Borderline Useless after Nerf)

BrownUnibrowBrownUnibrow Posts: 21Member
edited November 2017 in Card Balance Discussion
The nerf was hardly necessary, only seeing usage in the Pekka Hog Lightning deck. It find it so difficult to get value out of now, usually missing enemy troops. To those who use it, why?
Lightning Balance
  1. What do you think the Lightning needs in terms of balance?43 votes
    1. Large buff
        6.98%
    2. Medium Buff
      25.58%
    3. Small Buff
      39.53%
    4. No change, it's balanced
      23.26%
    5. Small nerf
        2.33%
    6. Medium nerf
        0.00%
    7. Large nerf
        2.33%
  2. Is Lightning borderline useless after the nerf?43 votes
    1. Yes, it's pretty weak in this meta now
      62.79%
    2. No, the last nerf was necessary to balance the card
        6.98%
    3. No, it's still strong in the meta
      13.95%
    4. No, it's useless in some areas but viable/OP in others.
      16.28%
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Comments

  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,364Moderator
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread
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  • WubWubWubWub Posts: 423Member
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread

    The problem is, if you nerf Fireball, then what do you do about Poison? Poison already does more damage than Fireball and has a larger radius.
    I think that all the troops like Musketeer and Wizard need a health buff to be able to survive a Fireball one level higher than them. That's my fix.
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  • JcttehTheWiseJcttehTheWise Posts: 2,018Moderator
    I'll be honest

    I used to hate Lightning. I used to complain constantly about its absurd range. I used to be happy with the nerf (before knowing exactly what kind of nerf it had), but when I saw the nerf, I just thank 'here's another killed card...'. Basically they commited two mistakes imo: nerfing it too much, since the damage nerf was unnecessary amd the radius decrease was quite exagerated, and not nerfing IT to compensate the nerf.
    Yes, I still hate Lightning as a concept, but no matter how someone hates a card, it doesn't deserve to be trashed.

    It just need to be back the damage nerf and increase the range 0.5 tiles, and of course nerf IT. Yes, IT is one of my favourite defense since gives me a lot of seccurity, but as I said at the beginning, I'm being honest, so I must admit that IT is very strong right now.
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  • bananaboygamerbananaboygamer Posts: 18Member
    Tru.

    But I used royal giant and lightning on my mini account, and won 11 battles in a row, no joke...
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  • From a Lightning user, Lightning was definitely an overpowered card pre-nerf. However, so was the Rocket.
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  • Damien4794Damien4794 Posts: 88Member
    I think Lightning needs to see a buff to its prime targets like Wizard, Witch, Musketeer, etc. that were in the game on soft launch. Without these cards in the meta, it is far more difficult to get value on the Lightning.
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  • PuzoPuzo Posts: 479Member
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread

    EW nerf shouldnt have happened? What do you nerf, if you dont nerf the best card in the game?

    Lightning nerf on the other hand was unnecessery and should be reverted.
  • MathChampMathChamp Posts: 1,725Moderator
    I think that Supercell was like "We need to buff sparky and make her meta, but how?"

    Then they ended up buffing the sparky and nerfing hard counters like the lightning and ewiz.

    It was a flawed decision on their part because lightning was a somewhat balanced card before they nerfed it. It was so prevalent because there is no viable substitute for lightning, not because it was inherently overpowered stat-wise. Lightning wasn't boxing out cards, and it sure wasn't making the IT cry (because IT is in bait or cycle).

    It just doesn't make sense.
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  • WubWubWubWub Posts: 423Member
    My proposed change: keep Lightning as it is... but make it 5 elixir. There's no 5 elixir spell besides Graveyard, and this allows Lightning to get value easier, even if it requires more skill or positioning.
    Oh yeah, and that means you can get a neutral elixir trade on a pump with Lightning...
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  • BrownUnibrowBrownUnibrow Posts: 21Member
    Puzo wrote: »
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread

    EW nerf shouldnt have happened? What do you nerf, if you dont nerf the best card in the game?

    Lightning nerf on the other hand was unnecessery and should be reverted.
    Hahaha. If SC were to revert a nerf it'd be proving they were wrong. They probabaly wouldn't want to do that, now would they?

    Lightning will probabaly be UP for a year even if they buff lightning in the next balance change, considering the next balance change will also be a year late.
  • Bmille3Bmille3 Posts: 137Member
    edited November 2017
    2 scoops of raisins and a medium buff
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  • BrownUnibrowBrownUnibrow Posts: 21Member
    edited November 2017
    From a Lightning user, Lightning was definitely an overpowered card pre-nerf. However, so was the Rocket.

    I used lightning as well and never found it overpowered. To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty it does get a lot of value, but that's not exactly consistent and it's easy for lightning's opponent to avoid. It also doesn't help that the meta doesn't really have many cards that due to lightning, besides 3M, MM, and EWiz.

    It's the only consistent way to break Inferno Tower with Beatdown unless you're playing GY which can just bypass any defenses (which is partially why I use it).
  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,364Moderator
    Puzo wrote: »
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread

    EW nerf shouldnt have happened? What do you nerf, if you dont nerf the best card in the game?

    Lightning nerf on the other hand was unnecessery and should be reverted.
    Hahaha. If SC were to revert a nerf it'd be proving they were wrong. They probabaly wouldn't want to do that, now would they?

    Lightning will probabaly be UP for a year even if they buff lightning in the next balance change, considering the next balance change will also be a year late.

    They reverted the skeletons multiple times... 4 to 3 to 4 to 3 again
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  • BrownUnibrowBrownUnibrow Posts: 21Member
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Puzo wrote: »
    MasterCal wrote: »
    Because we need to reset inferno, after the EWiz nerf too. Neither of those nerfs should have happened.

    Heck, I barely saw Lightning pre-nerf in Ladder. It was a ton of Fireball. Look at FB's use rates. Why wasn't FB nerfed? It has seemingly a huge range, crippling a lot of glass cannons. If I were to nerf lightning, I surely would've nerfed FB as well.

    FB IMO should have a 2.25 tile radius instead of 2.5. I also saw a Reddit post to where there are inconsistencies between Lightning and the MM/Exe post-nerf.

    Also added a poll to this thread

    EW nerf shouldnt have happened? What do you nerf, if you dont nerf the best card in the game?

    Lightning nerf on the other hand was unnecessery and should be reverted.
    Hahaha. If SC were to revert a nerf it'd be proving they were wrong. They probabaly wouldn't want to do that, now would they?

    Lightning will probabaly be UP for a year even if they buff lightning in the next balance change, considering the next balance change will also be a year late.

    They reverted the skeletons multiple times... 4 to 3 to 4 to 3 again
    That only happened once and reverting them back to 3 would mean they thought they were right all along. Regardless, I don't see Lightning getting reverted. They'll probabaly buff it a different way (if they buff it at all) because SC likes to screw up perfect balance. Just like when they buffed EBarbs. Game was in a golden state before the balance change that buffed EBarbs.
  • Jimbo5point3Jimbo5point3 Posts: 44Member
    I disagree with how it was nerfed, but Lightning did need to be toned down. It was in every Golem deck, every Lavaloon deck, most Hog decks, and most Giant decks that didn't use Graveyard.

    MathChamp is right in that some of the reason for its previous popularity was because no other card could be a decent substitute - Rocket was too slow, zap too weak, and E Wiz too unreliable to lock onto the tower.

    I think the core issue is still how Inferno Tower, Inferno Dragon and Sparky) function. Why do they have to restart their charge altogether when hit by Zap, Lightning, or E Wiz when all other units are simply stunned for 1/2 a second and re-target? The inconsistency makes no sense.
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