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Welcome to Card Balance Discussion: Guide

MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,172Moderator
edited November 2017 in Card Balance Discussion
You are now viewing probably one of my personal favorite subforums: Card Balance Discussion (CBD). Why is it my favorite? Read on and find out!

Table of Contents
  1. Introduction to Card Balance Discussion
  2. Vocabulary and Terminology
  3. Guide to Buffing/Nerfing/Reworking Card(s) Threads (By NightmareX)
  4. [ONE AND ONLY] Card/Deck Discussions
  5. CBD Discord Server
  6. Forum Rules to Keep in Mind and Summary

Supplementary Posts
  • Explaining Card Rarities (by TheSeer, post 3

Introduction to Card Balance Discussion


In this subforum/category, the state of balance is discussed. Whether it is one card you want changed or you have a whole list of balance changes to share, post it here! There are several guidelines here to help you make better quality posts and following the rules. I'll start off with some vocal and terminology

Vocabulary and Terminology (Work in Progress)


Like many other things, video game balance has its own jargon, or language and terms, to describe ideas and objects. Not understanding these terms may leave you confused. If you've been here frequently or have watched a good amount of YouTube, you might already know some of these terms. The following list includes abbreviations, words, and terms so you know what they mean if you see them used.

META: Abbreviation for "Most Effective Tactic (or Troop) Available." In plain English, that means the best cards in the game. It doesn't have to be capitalized :crsmirk: It's generally used in ways such as "this card is strong in the current meta" or "this meta is so stale and toxic."

Buff: Referring to an increase. In this case, it means that a card gets stronger. For example, if the Elite Barbarians get their health increased, the Elite Barbarians have just been buffed.

Nerf: Referring to a decrease. In this case, it means a card gets weaker. For example, if Goblins get their damage decreased, the Goblins got nerfed

Rework: A change that is complex and multi-faceted. Generally something about a card got buffed and another thing about a card got nerfed. Changing elixir cost of a card is generally a rework. Reworks can be trending buff or nerf.

OP: Overpowered. Too strong

UP: Underpowered. Too weak

OU: Overused

UU: Underused.

Win Condition: Card(s) used to take down towers, what you use to "win." Generally building targeting troops

Archetype: Genre or type of deck a certain deck or strategy is

Beatdown: Archetype based around building huge pushes, especially in faster elixir regeneration, to destroy or cripple towers in one push.

Control: Cheaper archetype revolved around defensive cards, and a cheap win condition to wear towers down over time

Cycle: Faster and even cheaper than control, this archetype is based on the cheapest cards and one win condition or two, continually chipping a tower down and cycling through deck back to win condition quickly.

DPS: Damage per second

HP: Hitpoints, health points, health

Hit speed: Attack speed, how fast that troop attacks

FB: Fireball

MP: Mini Pekka

Skarmy: Skeleton Army

Baby Drag/Baby D/BD: Baby Dragon

Stab Gobs: Goblins

Spear Gobs: Spear Goblins

Gob Hut: Goblin Hut

Valk: Valkyrie

Gob Barrel/G Barrel/GB: Goblin Barrel

Larrys/Skele/Skulls: Skeletons

BT: Bomb Tower

TS: Tombstone. Or Tournament Standard

GS/Giant Skele: Giant Skeleton

Loon: Balloon

more to come later!

Guide to Buffing/Nerfing/Reworking Card(s) in Threads


This guide comes straight from the old SC forums. It was created by Game Specialist NightmareX. I have updated a few items on his guide, so this is not a word-for-word copy.

NightmareX wrote:
There are many threads based on arguments about cards being buffed or nerfed. This is common for a strategy game because we all love our individual decks and we believe that some are putting others in the shade because the power difference in general is insane. Remember that balance is opinion, not fact. So someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily "wrong." Remember, we all have our biases and loved/hated cards.

The basic idea of this thread is to encourage more creative arguments about cards. If you are going to make a thread about cards, at least spell the title correctly and say something reasonable instead of 'nerf dis now'. Who wants to read that? The reasons are important. There is no point in changing a card if it's going to make no difference to counters and gameplay. So make sure you explain why said card(s) need a change and why your change is adequate.

Therefore I suggest that threads should be organised in a more structured and detailed way.


Layout
Step 1: Name the card. Which card needs changing? This can be in the title.
Step 2: Issue - What is wrong? State what stats make the troop superior/inferior.
Step 3: Changes (Nerf/Buff) - State what stats could be changed. Try and be specific by using percentages.
Step 3.5: Why do you wish for this to change? - Give reasons for the buff/nerf.
Step 4: Effect - How will this change the game or how the troop is countered?
Step 5: Summary - Justify your choices and explain why the buff/nerf will not ruin the card.

The layout of your thread doesn't have to be as detailed as I will show below. Instead, you can capture key information and explain why a card should be balanced. You may wish to argue why a card is currently overpowered or ineffective from statistics alone as well as in-game situations.


Example of an opening post

Troop:
Royal Giant (Common troop card from arena 7)

Issue:
The Royal Giant currently offers too much damage since his recent buff. He dodges the main counter Inferno Tower unless it is placed whilst he is in range. The other alternative is to desperately place swarms that can be countered instantly with a cheap spell such a zap spell. If this is not present, the Royal Giant can still damage buildings or a crown tower for quite a while. The worst part is that he can instantly attack crown towers after stepping over the bridge if no buildings are present. If they are, he would abuse their range and get through them without taking damage. If not, he will take minor damage from the building as he targets the crown tower instead. Either way he will do mass damage to a crown tower when troops are being ignored. Even high dps troops such as the Mini Pekka take too long to kill the Royal Giant alone. Even if support does not kill a Mini Pekka, the Royal Giant will get the opportunity to deal mass damage.

Nerf:
To fix the ability to allow him to instantly target crown towers once he steps over the bridge or destroys the defenses (That have all had a nerf) I suggest that his target should be set to: All. This means that he has to kill troops before targeting a crown tower.

Effect:
This should give players a chance to stop the Royal Giant before he does damage to a crown tower. The Giant Skeleton has to attack troops first and also walk up to a crown tower for the same elixir cost as a Royal Giant whereas the Royal Giant snipes the crown tower instantly.
The normal giant will also be able to make an appearance again because he is currently outmatched when compared to a Royal Giant

Balance:
If the Royal Giant loses it's ability to target buildings, he can still do his damage but require support rather than being a 1 card wrecking team. It is also an important balance because all other troops have a reasonable costing counter troop/building to stop the RG . This would include a few more counter methods other than placing a Bomb Tower while he is in range and praying that your next troop will kill him.



Useful Info
-Put important information as well as your suggested changes in bold!
-Suggest the changes and aims of your balancing!
-Compare the card you are discussing to others. After all, we are balancing statistics.
-If you have several ideas for changes, create a poll to see which is more popular.


Replying to a thread
Please be respectful as forum rules still apply here. Rather than swearing at people because of disagreements, simply suggest why you disagree with a user's post. Maybe even suggest better changes to add to the discussion. After all, if Sparky is an issue, you could develop a large discussion to see in 1 thread rather than having a lot of thread spam that isn't worth reading.

If you agree with a post, there isn't much I can say. If you wish to bring up a thoughtful post, rather than yelling "Bump", just say that you believe this is worth mentioning and bring the discussion back.
spicy
pv7u5U6.jpg

CR Stats PB: 4609 KT: 12. Card lvls: Mostly 11 with some lvl 10 Rares and lvl 12 Commons 90/90 cards unlocked. IGN: Hardcase Royale.

BS Stats: 9 Brawlers. IGN: ΜαΣτεπςαλ

Please read the Forum Rules

Want to see if you are on the forum leaderboards? Post in this thread to see if you have enough to qualify.

Follow me on Twitter: @MasterCalCR. Discord: MasterCal #7507

Comments

  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,172Moderator
    edited November 2017
    [One and Only] Threads


    The point of these threads is to make sure there are not 1000 "Nerf this card" threads. That's pointless because it can push down other good discussions, is not conducive to reading, and has zero organization. These threads are intended to solve that problem.

    Since multiple threads on one topic are not allowed, any thread about ONE card not in the [One and Only] (OAO for short) discussion for that card will be merged into that OAO thread. For example, if you post a Hog Rider thread, it'll be moved into the OAO Hog thread.

    I encourage you to report any threads like that. Say "This discussion should be in the OAO Hog Thread." in the flag message.

    Anyone can start a OAO discussion, provided another OAO discussion for that card does not exist. Refer to my other sticky, the OAO Link List Catalog, to find the OAO threads.

    Cards and decks that are hot topics in the community will be temporalily stickied to improve discussion.
    CBD Discord Server

    Want to discuss card balancing on discord? I created a whole server dedicated to chatting about balance. I created it after the news that the SC forums were closing. At the time I didn't know this forum would be made. But I decided to keep that server. You can join my server below

    https://discord.gg/kCRFd5b

    Forum Rules to Keep in Mind


    Of course, forum rules apply here.

    Summary

    This guide is to help make quality discussions that are worth reading.

    Don't just make a thread saying "Nerf Goblin Barrel," instead provide reasons for nerfing it

    Post in the OAO discussions if you want to discuss ONE card

    Be sure to follow forum rules

    Have a good time in this category!
    pv7u5U6.jpg

    CR Stats PB: 4609 KT: 12. Card lvls: Mostly 11 with some lvl 10 Rares and lvl 12 Commons 90/90 cards unlocked. IGN: Hardcase Royale.

    BS Stats: 9 Brawlers. IGN: ΜαΣτεπςαλ

    Please read the Forum Rules

    Want to see if you are on the forum leaderboards? Post in this thread to see if you have enough to qualify.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MasterCalCR. Discord: MasterCal #7507
  • TheSeerTheSeer Posts: 7Member
    Sometimes people talk about balancing a card by changing it's rarity.

    I just want to put it out there, how good or bad a card is, should never decide it's rarity. You need good and bad cards in all rarities of the game to make it balanced, otherwise commons would never get played because in theory, all bad cards would be commons.

    Commons should be basic cards, nothing really crazy to consider in using. Some might have a little added value, Zap and it's reset for example.

    Rares should be cards that have a little more strategy, strength or abilities to them, not all of the cards, but some. Stronger spells (Fireball vs Arrows), spawner buildings, etc.

    Epics should do some crazy things that may not be done at other levels. Examples: Balloon goes straight for a building but flies, eliminating many items to defend against it like skarmy, goblins, barbarians, etc, Witch - spawning mobile unit, Tornado - moves units which tactically can retarget them to King or change lane, Golem - Super Tank.

    Legends have the ability to go a little farther than Epics in what they can do, but doesn't mean they are unstoppable. Ice Wizard - slows things, Miner tanks anywhere on the board, Princess' range, etc.

    Remember, how good or bad a card is should in no way reflect it's rarity. This is something I learned years ago reading Mark Rosewaters column on 'Making Magic' for the M:TG card game.
  • FusionBoltFusionBolt Posts: 179Member
    Is a Clone thread ruled out? Just want to make sure I don't post a ruled out opinion.
    Electro.png
    Current high: 3085 trophies, CR Content Creator, And Loyal Hog Rider user!
    Hog Rider Stats: Usage: 28% +2.5% Win-rate: 48% -1.5%
  • MasterCalMasterCal Posts: 2,172Moderator
    edited January 2018
    FusionBolt wrote: »
    Is a Clone thread ruled out? Just want to make sure I don't post a ruled out opinion.

    @FusionBolt Nope. No card that is in the game should be ruled out :)
    pv7u5U6.jpg

    CR Stats PB: 4609 KT: 12. Card lvls: Mostly 11 with some lvl 10 Rares and lvl 12 Commons 90/90 cards unlocked. IGN: Hardcase Royale.

    BS Stats: 9 Brawlers. IGN: ΜαΣτεπςαλ

    Please read the Forum Rules

    Want to see if you are on the forum leaderboards? Post in this thread to see if you have enough to qualify.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MasterCalCR. Discord: MasterCal #7507
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